WW1 Military Watches - Revision history

Isologue: /* The Mark V */

2024-03-06T11:43:39Z

The Mark V

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:43, 6 March 2024
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	:B.H. - Record;		:B.H. - Record;
	:B.K. - Electa;		:B.K. - Electa;
	:B.L. - Paul Garnier;		:B.L. - Paul Garnier (whose post-WWI agent in the U.K. was Moise Dreyfus);
	:C.B. - Zenith;		:C.B. - Zenith;
	:C.C. - Moser.		:C.C. - Moser.
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	----		----

	=== '''British Watches, Pocket General Service''' ===		=== '''British Watches, Pocket General Service''' ===
	----		----

Isologue: /* Eight-day movements */

2024-03-06T11:31:45Z

Eight-day movements

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:31, 6 March 2024
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	:For a while, Georges Favre Jacot et Cie of Le Locle (better known today as [[Zenith]]) supplied a Mark IVA watch with a movement of this design marked with its own BILLODES trademark. (Later examples were marked Octava in the standard manner).		:For a while, Georges Favre Jacot et Cie of Le Locle (better known today as [[Zenith]]) supplied a Mark IVA watch with a movement of this design marked with its own BILLODES trademark. (Later examples were marked Octava in the standard manner).

	'''~~Unattributed~~ (~~possibly supplied through Nicole, Nielsen & Co~~) (Swiss gilt-finished 8-day movement)'''		'''Charles Hahn and Cie (later to become Landeron) (Swiss gilt-finished 8-day movement)'''
	----		----

	: This ~~unattributed~~ Swiss made 8-day movement was used by various contractors (G Davenport & Co Ltd, Etienne & Cie, S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd, W Ehrhardt) to supply the Mark IVA watch. A very similar movement was used by Nicole, Nielsen & Co Ltd to supply the Mark IVA watch, suggesting perhaps that this company was the communal source for the movements used by ~~the~~ other suppliers. (Nicole, Nielsen & Co Ltd had a documented commercial relationship with S. Smith & Son, supplying motor accessories as well as ebauches).		: This Swiss-made gilt 8-day movement was used by various contractors (G Davenport & Co Ltd, Etienne & Cie, S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd, W Ehrhardt) to supply the Mark IVA watch. A very similar movement was used by Nicole, Nielsen & Co Ltd to supply the Mark IVA watch, suggesting perhaps that this company was the communal source for the movements used by other suppliers. (Nicole, Nielsen & Co Ltd had a documented commercial relationship with S. Smith & Son, supplying motor accessories as well as ebauches).

	:The movement carries serial numbers stamped ~~clearly~~ to a main movement plate.		:The movement carries serial numbers stamped visibly to a main movement plate.

John Airey: /* The Admiralty Mark II */

2022-02-05T11:13:26Z

The Admiralty Mark II

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:13, 5 February 2022
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	===='''The Admiralty Mark II '''====		===='''The Admiralty Mark II '''====
	----		----
	The Admiralty Mark II watch was supplied by two firms: (1) Thos. Armstrong & Bro, Manchester (using the Swiss 8-day Octava movement); and (2) S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd (using the Swiss gilt ~~Douad~~ patent 8-day movement).		The Admiralty Mark II watch was supplied by two firms: (1) Thos. Armstrong & Bro, Manchester (using the Swiss 8-day Octava movement); and (2) S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd (using the Swiss gilt Douard patent 8-day movement).

	The Admiralty Mark II appeared in both a luminous (black dial) and non-luminous (white dial) version. S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd supplied both versions.		The Admiralty Mark II appeared in both a luminous (black dial) and non-luminous (white dial) version. S. Smith & Sons (M.A.) Ltd supplied both versions.
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	Admiralty Mark II case backs were sterile, except for the Thos. Armstrong & Bro type (b) dial, which feature a stamped, stylised ‘long arrow’ design.		Admiralty Mark II case backs were sterile, except for the Thos. Armstrong & Bro type (b) dial, which feature a stamped, stylised ‘long arrow’ design.
	----		----

	===='''The Mark III '''====		===='''The Mark III '''====
	----		----

Isologue: /* H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F) */

2021-07-25T12:46:07Z

H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:46, 25 July 2021
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	H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).		H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).

	H. Williamson also supplied these 7-jewel watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W. On the evidence of the Report of the Astronomer Royal relating to Chronometers (May 1915 to May 1916), these appear to date from 1915/16: ‘''[a] cheaper form of watch, which has been given the name of Pocket Watch, was called for by the Admiralty during the year. Of these 600 have been purchased after being tested''’.		H. Williamson also supplied these 7-jewel watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W. On the evidence of the Report of the Astronomer Royal relating to Chronometers (May 1915 to May 1916), these appear to date from 1915/16: ‘''[a] cheaper form of watch, which has been given the name of Pocket Watch, was called for by the Admiralty during the year. Of these 600 have been purchased after being tested''’. Further purchases were recorded for the duration of WWI: 200 watches (1916-17); 280 watches (1917-18); 396 watches (1918-19).

	The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.		The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.

Isologue: /* H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F) */

2021-07-25T12:38:06Z

H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:38, 25 July 2021
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	[[file:F1345BC5-600E-4F93-A4D6-C5AB0F8AFD60.jpeg\|thumb\|left\|H Williamson Ltd GS pocket watch c 1914 showing hunter dial arrangement]]		[[file:F1345BC5-600E-4F93-A4D6-C5AB0F8AFD60.jpeg\|thumb\|left\|H Williamson Ltd GS pocket watch c 1914 showing hunter dial arrangement]]

	Many of the supplied savonette movements carry Williamson's Coventry Astral Star trademark~~, dating~~ from c 1910. The Astral was Williamson's standard 7-jewel model and was produced using machine made techniques. ZMW [p 26] describes the hunter movement as being used in Williamson’s earlier contract watches, culled from their existing stocks due to the exigencies of war. However, the watch shown in ZMW has a c 1916 issue number that probably reflects the supply crisis of the mid-war period rather than the rush to war in 1914. The two types of movement have entirely-separate serial number sequences applied to their plates, which run continuously in parallel throughout the issue.		Many of the supplied savonette movements carry Williamson's Coventry Astral Star trademark (which dates from c 1910). The Astral was Williamson's standard 7-jewel model and was produced using machine made techniques. ZMW [p 26] describes the hunter movement as being used in Williamson’s earlier contract watches, culled from their existing stocks due to the exigencies of war. However, the watch shown in ZMW has a c 1916 issue number that probably reflects the supply crisis of the mid-war period rather than the rush to war in 1914. The two types of movement have entirely-separate serial number sequences applied to their plates, which run continuously in parallel throughout the issue.

	H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).		H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).

	H. Williamson also supplied watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W. On the evidence of the Report of the Astronomer Royal relating to Chronometers (May 1915 to May 1916), these appear to date from 1915/16: ‘''[a] cheaper form of watch, which has been given the name of Pocket Watch, was called for by the Admiralty during the year. Of these 600 have been purchased after being tested''’.		H. Williamson also supplied these 7-jewel watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W. On the evidence of the Report of the Astronomer Royal relating to Chronometers (May 1915 to May 1916), these appear to date from 1915/16: ‘''[a] cheaper form of watch, which has been given the name of Pocket Watch, was called for by the Admiralty during the year. Of these 600 have been purchased after being tested''’.

	The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.		The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.

Isologue: /* H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F) */

2021-07-25T12:34:32Z

H Williamson Ltd, London (vocab letter F)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:34, 25 July 2021
Line 322:		Line 322:
	H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).		H. Williamson used nickel Cases from Dennison but also employed an American made case (the Illinois Watch Case Co).

	H. Williamson also supplied watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W.		H. Williamson also supplied watches as naval issue, with the movement serial number painted to the dial (where the issue number sits in the Army issue), and the backs being marked P ^ W. On the evidence of the Report of the Astronomer Royal relating to Chronometers (May 1915 to May 1916), these appear to date from 1915/16: ‘''[a] cheaper form of watch, which has been given the name of Pocket Watch, was called for by the Admiralty during the year. Of these 600 have been purchased after being tested''’.

	The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.		The pocket watches made by H Williamson Ltd were mostly machine-made in Coventry, with other factories operating in Birmingham and Chaux-de-Fonds (Buren). The Head Office and a branch works, however, were established in London E.C.1. The company also produced an 8-day version of the Mark IVA aviation watch using a Swiss movement that was sourced from Eterna.
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	----		----

	==== '''Elgin (vocab letters R (G-294) and S (G-293))''' ====		==== '''Elgin (vocab letters R (G-294) and S (G-293))''' ====
	----		----

Isologue: /* Military issue markings */

2021-05-02T10:31:57Z

Military issue markings

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:31, 2 May 2021
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	*'''A [underline] ↑ case back and dial mark (possibly Air Board) (1917 onwards)'''		*'''A [underline] ↑ case back and dial mark (possibly Air Board) (1917 onwards)'''

	:This mark was applied to all Mark V watches (and to a very late version of the Mark IVA supplied by H. Williamson Ltd c 1917). The use of this mark may reflect the creation of the Air Board in 1917 (and so represents the word ‘Air’). However, ZMW [p 12] prefers ‘Aviation’.		:This mark was applied to all Mark V watches (and to a very late version of the Mark IVA supplied by H. Williamson Ltd c 1917). The use of this mark may reflect the creation of the Air Board in 1917 (and so represents the word ‘Air’), since it is common to all equipment issued under Air Board specifications. However, ZMW [p 12] prefers ‘Aviation’.

	*'''King’s Crown surmounting ‘A.M.’ case back mark (Air Ministry) (inter-war)'''		*'''King’s Crown surmounting ‘A.M.’ case back mark (Air Ministry) (inter-war)'''

Isologue: /* Military issue markings */

2021-05-02T10:29:06Z

Military issue markings

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:29, 2 May 2021
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	*'''A ↑ S case back mark (''sui generis'', possibly not an official ‘mark’)'''		*'''A ↑ S case back mark (''sui generis'', possibly not an official ‘mark’)'''

	:An ‘A ↑ S’ mark appears only on one watch: a Mark IVA supplied by S. Alexander & Son Ltd. The mark may simply be supplier's branding (A & S) rather than a service designator. ZMW [p 12] attributes this mark to the Royal Naval Air Service c. 1914 (‘Air Service’), ~~however~~.		:An A ↑ S mark appears only on one watch: a Mark IVA supplied by S. Alexander & Son Ltd. The mark may simply be supplier's branding (A & S) rather than a service designator. ZMW [p 12] attributes this mark to the Royal Naval Air Service c. 1914 (‘Air Service’), but the RNAS would have been equipped with the Admiralty’s own Mark I and Mark II watches rather than the Mark IVA. ‘Airship Service’ has also been suggested but is doubted for the same reason: all airships were surrendered to the control of the Admiralty during WWI.

	*'''~~‘Air’~~ case back ~~and dial mark~~ (~~possibly Air Board~~) (1917 ~~onwards~~)'''		*'''W ↑ D case back (War Department) (up to 1917)'''

	:The ~~‘Air’ Mark~~ (~~A [underline] ↑]~~ was applied to ~~all~~ Mark ~~V watches~~ (~~and~~ to ~~a very late version~~ of the Mark IVA supplied by ~~H. Williamson~~ Ltd ~~c 1917~~). ~~The use~~ of ~~this~~ mark ~~may reflect~~ the ~~reorganisation~~ of ~~war effort~~ that ~~led~~ to the ~~creation of the Air Board~~ in ~~1917. However, ZMW [p 12] prefers ‘Aviation’~~.		:The War Department (W.D.) mark was applied to the Mark IVA watch until the marking was cancelled in 1917. (The mark typically appears to the case back, although an early issue of the Mark IVA watch supplied by G Davenport & Co Ltd sees the mark painted to the dial; the putative Mark III watch also sees the mark painted to the dial). At least three different designs of the W.D. mark were employed: (i) an elaborate decorated version that occupied the whole of the flat portion of the case back; (ii) a boldly-engraved, simple, style, that is perhaps confined to early issue watches; and (iii) a much smaller, simple, stamped version, that is the more common usage seen in surviving examples.

	*'''Air Ministry case back mark (inter-war)'''		:Although the War Department became the War Office in 1857, the name remained in use for certain purposes.

	~~:The~~ Air ~~Ministry mark~~ (~~A.M. with King’s Crown surmounted~~), which was used from the inter-war period until c 1943, occasionally appears in addition to one of the other marks, indicating retention in stores after WWI. These watches sometimes have ‘G.S. Type’ applied to the dial, indicating a General Service watch that in RAF usage was assigned the 6E/50 stores reference.		*'''A [underline] ↑ case back and dial mark (possibly Air Board) (1917 onwards)'''

	*'''W ↑ D case back (~~War Department~~) (~~up to 1917~~)~~'''~~		:This mark was applied to all Mark V watches (and to a very late version of the Mark IVA supplied by H. Williamson Ltd c 1917). The use of this mark may reflect the creation of the Air Board in 1917 (and so represents the word ‘Air’). However, ZMW [p 12] prefers ‘Aviation’.

	~~:The War Department (W~~.D.~~) mark (W ↑ D) was applied to the Mark IVA watch until that mark was cancelled in 1917. (The mark typically appears to the~~ case back, although an early issue of the Mark IVA watch supplied by G Davenport & Co Ltd sees the mark painted to the dial; the putative Mark III watch also sees the mark painted to the dial). At least three different designs of the W.D. mark ~~were employed:~~ (i) ~~an elaborate decorated version that occupied the whole of the flat portion of the case back;~~ (ii) a much smaller, simple, stamped version that is the more common usage seen in surviving examples; and (iii) a slightly larger, boldly-engraved version of the simple style is also seen, perhaps confined to early issue watches.		*'''King’s Crown surmounting ‘A.M.’ case back mark (Air Ministry) (inter-war)'''

	:~~Although~~ the ~~War Department became~~ the ~~War Office~~ in ~~1857~~, the ~~name remained in use for certain purposes~~.		:The Air Ministry mark, which was used from the inter-war period until c 1943, occasionally appears in addition to one of the other marks, indicating retention in stores after WWI. These watches sometimes have ‘G.S. Type’ applied to the dial, indicating a General Service watch that in RAF usage was assigned the 6E/50 stores reference.

	*'''Sterile case backs (no markings)'''		*'''Sterile case backs (no markings)'''

	:The Admiralty Mark I and Mark II had sterile case backs, apart from one version of the Mark II that was supplied by Thos. Armstrong & Bros, Manchester (which had a unique stamped ‘long arrow’ design). Presumably the nomenclature that appeared on the Mark I and Mark II watch dials was considered sufficient for most purposes		:The Admiralty Mark I and Mark II had sterile case backs, apart from one version of the Mark II that was supplied by Thos. Armstrong & Bros, Manchester (which had a unique stamped ‘long arrow’ design). Presumably the nomenclature that appeared on the Mark I and Mark II watch dials was considered sufficient for most purposes.
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	=====Eight-day movements=====		=====Eight-day movements=====
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Richard at 12:12, 1 May 2021

2021-05-01T12:12:21Z

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Richard: Reverted edits by Isologue (talk) to last revision by Richard

2021-04-28T11:55:19Z

Reverted edits by Isologue (talk) to last revision by Richard

Show changes